ladymercury_10: (Companions)
[personal profile] ladymercury_10
Everyone keeps telling me it is NO GOOD that I never finished RTD Who, and especially that I never watched any Ninth Doctor episodes.  So last night, [ profile] light_frost and I watched "Rose" and "The End of the World."  (Since we don't live in the same state, this really means we were on GChat while we were watching them.  She had seen them before, incidentally.)  

Man, I thought Ten was sad, but Nine goes and hangs out at, like, the launching of the Titanic, and his idea of an impressive vacation is taking Rose to see the world blow up.  Rose and Mickey were cute, even though they seemed like they were kind of talking past each other most of the time.  And they looked so young!  Also, weirdly, the special effects were super cheesy, but "Rose" was a much creepier episode to me than many more straightforwardly creepy episodes.  I am not sure if I am more susceptible to cheesy-scary than proper-scary, or if I am just getting more susceptible to being scared by Doctor Who in general. :P

Also in fannish news, I have been trying to get in some more library comics-reading before finals/winter break, so I just finished Robin: Year One, Batgirl: Death Wish, and Batgirl: Year One.  Which, Batgirl: Year One was amazing, and pretty much everything I would want from a comic.  The art was magical, and I really liked the story and how Babs and Dick were written.  It has a lot of mythology references, and allusions to Barbara's future as Oracle and such, and other cool stuff.  It makes me so sad that it's out of print. :(

Did everybody see that [ profile] fandom_stocking moved to DreamWidth this year?  I haven't finished making my stocking yet, but I am very excited to do so.  Who all is participating?  I want to know where your stockings are. :D

Date: 2012-12-03 07:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
jdifsajl; The Ninth Doctor is my favorite doctor! The shows are super campy but he was amazing, I really enjoy his acting and portrayal of the Doctor post Time War. Nine is great. :)

Date: 2012-12-03 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
That's cool! :) Which Doctors have you seen?

Date: 2012-12-04 01:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I've seen some of one, five, and seven. A tiny, tiny bit.

Date: 2012-12-04 02:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Oh, you have seen more Doctors than I have. :) I have seen a tiny bit of Four, and I've been watching Seven lately. Which episodes with Seven did you watch?

Date: 2012-12-03 08:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
TEN IS NINE TRYING TO GET BETTER. And then Eleven is the Doctor looking back at Ten and deciding to just give up and move himself as far away from it as possible. But Nine is pretty much the catalyst for everything depressing and self hating and guilt ridden that the Doctor does. Ten's depressing in a much more human way, because he's that much more emotional but Nine gahhhh. Nine is just so broken and cold and scarred by the war that's fresh in his mind (you get the implication when you see him in Rose, he's just regenerated, or I did since he didn't even know what he looked like yet) and it defines him so much in that he did commit the genocide of two races and it just really haunts him and it's so incredible of how he changes from the person who sees humans as stupid apes and this completely self loathing person to where he ends up and Rose is just fantastic


Rose was really creepy, in part because walking mannequins that's creepy.

Date: 2012-12-03 08:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
See, I couldn't figure out when he had regenerated, because he didn't seem to know what he looked like but also he had been around long enough that Clive had pictures of him doing other stuff.


The little baby mannequins were creepy. And the decapitating plastic!Mickey part.

Date: 2012-12-03 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yeah, I wasn't too sure about that. The evidence is kind of contradictory, since the way he acts seems to imply that he hasn't been in the regeneration long, but then the pictures? I had thought that it might have been him having adventures we'd later see, but we never get to see any of them (that I'm aware of), but it's possible they happened sometime offscreen?

YOU'RE WELCOME. IDK, it felt like an appropriate means to apologize with XD

Date: 2012-12-03 10:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Maybe he just had some adventures right after he regenerated and didn't bother to properly look in a mirror or anything? If he was kind of in a self-loathing mood and managed to keep really busy visiting disasters, he probably could have gotten by only seeing little glimpses of his reflection for a fairly decent amount of time.

Date: 2012-12-04 12:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
That's true- nothing to pick yourself up like going to see all the most tragic accidents and events in history.

Date: 2012-12-04 12:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Well, they said he managed to keep that family from getting on the Titanic, so maybe he was just attempting even-more-doomed rescue missions than usual?

Date: 2012-12-04 12:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Extra reckless and throwing himself into the face of danger while saving people! That fits him pretty well off (or least how he's in the start- he does get better. Slowly.)

Date: 2012-12-04 12:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Wait, has he ever NOT been extra reckless and just run around in the face of danger? I thought even when he was not feeling sad, it was, like, a game to him. Even when he's being manipulative and plotting he seems to make half of everything up on the spot. :P

Date: 2012-12-04 12:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Well, that's true. MORE THAN NORMAL, then. It becomes a lot more evident in some of Ten's episodes, as well as later with Nine (I think- I might be misremembering) that there's definitely a whole different level that he takes it to when he's feeling down. There's an episode in S4 that really, really underscores it.

Date: 2012-12-04 12:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I remember reading more than one fic in which Martha would kind of look at how he was reacting to danger and go, yeah, he has a death wish. So that would be S3, which was when he started getting mopier again because Rose left.

Which I suppose if you think of it that way, then his whole not wanting to die thing about regenerating becomes less whiny and more like finally getting over some of his angst, but it happened after a fairly literal "glass case of emotion," so that didn't play as well as perhaps it should have. :P

Date: 2012-12-04 03:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yeah, I think Martha mentions it off handed sometime in her run as well (or at the least, someone mentions it). Or asks if he has a death wish.

Yeah, that whole bit was a little over dramatic given everything that had already happened in the episode XD His whole not wanting to go thing was very much of a lot of what he had been through up until that point, though. Which was a pretty giant roller coaster ride, tbh, but Ten's pretty unique among all three so far in of how emotional he was, and by extent, how human he had become upon Nine's regeneration and how attached he was to his 'life'. No spoilers, but conditions of Nine's regeneration sort of lent themselves to creating an incarnation who did interact with the companions (and others around them) a lot more and in a way, it was the probably the closest canonical point we got where he actually wanted desperately to be human, and got incredibly close to that point over the course of his run. Like, Ten even had romantic relationships of large enough impact and he's very distinctly human in how he recognizes social cues and habits and I think it gives him a sort of anchor to hold onto in the aftermath of the Time War. It's kind of reflected even in the companions- he's in love with Rose, negligent to Martha, and fantastic with Donna, but the point is that he loses all of his relationships in the end. Even when the Master blips up for a little and there's another Time Lord for a tiny bit, the Master also leaves in the end, leaving Ten alone again- in a sense, the only remainder to connect him to everyone around him, since with the regeneration, it would be just like dying since those connections would in a sense, be very much dead and gone and with them, the tethers to everyone he had lost over the years, even though he ultimately realizes that he's slowly losing himself due to being so human. Which is a bit of why Eleven had turned out the way he did- looking back at Ten with that level of humanity and seeing what it did to him and how everyone did leave him, just steps so far away from it as to prevent it from happening again.


Date: 2012-12-04 04:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
But doesn't he always lose everyone? Like, don't his companions leave because they're human, even if he's not being too human? Or are you saying that since everyone leaves him, he may as well keep himself?

Date: 2012-12-04 04:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Well, kind of. Rose he lost due to extenuating circumstances, Donna didn't really have a choice in the matter and Martha was the only one who actually chose to leave. Both Rose and Donna expressed a desire to travel with him forever, and the matter of their leaving wasn't of their own free will (for the most part), and that's just counting the main companions. It's a bit of the latter, I suppose- if basically a majority of people you've liked, loved, respected, gotten along with, etc. and etc. have died, killed, removed or otherwise positioned in a point where the relationship is now null, then in a way, you're the only thing that's still around that remembers those relationships, so to speak. So yeah, it's a bit of keeping himself, but in context for the relationships that he had, if that makes any sense at all.

Date: 2012-12-04 04:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
No, but I mean the Doctor has always lost his companions for one reason or another, even if they're just hanging out somewhere else after having left on friendly terms. And he had some people die before, too, or get their memories erased. So if these things were happening to his companions even before the Time War and whatall, I don't get why he would attribute those things to having happened to Rose and Donna because of him acting too human? Or are you just saying that since some of them can't come back or remember him, he has to stay as much himself (and so non-human) as he can so that he can remember them as well as is possible?

Date: 2012-12-04 05:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
It's not that he attributes responsibility of the actual actions and things that happened to them to him being human, but the aftermath of the events and how he subsequently dealt with the losses that'd be linked to him being too human, hence Eleven. But the second is more or less the vein I'm getting at, since once he regenerates, it's implied that it'll be unlikely that he'll reengage on his old relationships with the same regard if at all, so Ten tries to hold onto those relationships through staying Ten.

Or you could just see it as the show being meta on itself and indicating that RTD's era was ending and with it, the characters and relationships and etc.

Date: 2012-12-04 05:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I think I sort of get it now.

Date: 2012-12-04 05:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Haha, sorry for being confusing. Easy breakdown would be something like

Nine+things leading to regen->super human things->Ten
Loss->I don't want to go become another person I like this person (A)
A->look what the emotional wreck I ended up dying as that's no good too emotional step back->Eleven

Though I don't know if that's actually easier to understand.

Date: 2012-12-04 05:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
No, that's good! You've gotta love flowcharts. :D Thanks!

(I'm actually really being serious. I once made a flowchart the size of a card table to analyze my postgrad options. I think my mom thought I was absolutely terminally geeky at that point, haha. I don't know why it was that big, either, because I wasn't trying to choose between that many things. :P )
Edited Date: 2012-12-04 05:27 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-12-04 07:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I totally agree! Flowcharts are seriously the best diagrams ever :D

Haha, you had to factor in each individual variable and possibility and option and pros and cons and where this would lead you and where this might lead you XD

Date: 2012-12-04 12:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Well, there are eighteen seconds between when he dematerializes the first time and comes back saying "Did I mention it travels in time?" He could have gone off and done some adventuring on his own then.

Date: 2012-12-04 12:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
This is a very good point.

Wait, did you just go turn the episode on and count? :P

Date: 2012-12-04 01:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Oh, haha. That is a cool story!

Date: 2012-12-04 03:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Oh wow, I totally forgot about that (and it does explain the bananas after all).

Date: 2012-12-03 11:01 pm (UTC)
mysticalchild_isis: (dr who the wolf and the storm)
From: [personal profile] mysticalchild_isis
I have so much love for Nine. He will forever be my favorite doctor, and that season of Who also makes up my favorite Whovian arc.

Date: 2012-12-03 11:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I am excited to see the arc! That is actually why I never saw any of Nine's episodes, because I had seen a bunch of Ten's episodes all out of order and kind of messed up the arcs. So I was putting S1 off until I could watch it properly.

Date: 2012-12-03 11:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I love Nine! I was rather sad he only was around for one series. Doesn't hurt that I'm also partial to Northern accents :) Though I'm astonished you haven't seen any of Nine's episodes yet (save for the ones you just watched, of course). How did that happen??

I agree that "Rose" is a pretty creepy episode, which is great because that's just the way I like my Dr. Who episodes.

Date: 2012-12-04 12:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Are Northern accents similar to Irish accents? I have been confused about this since the internet told me a different character I thought was Irish had a Northern accent, but his accent was stronger than Nine's. Sorry, that is an extremely random question. :P

The reason I hadn't seen any Ninth Doctor episodes is that when I started watching Doctor Who, I saw a bunch of Ten's episodes out of order, which was fine except it messed up the season arcs a little bit. So I thought I would save S1 and watch it all in order...and then I never got around to it, because I get distracted very easily when it comes to TV. :P

Date: 2012-12-04 12:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I'm certainly no expert, but I always thought a Northern accent sounded closer to Scottish than Irish. Which makes sense geographically. For further explanation, I found this video, which is more funny than anything, but there are some good hints of Northern vs. Southern accents.

Also, Richard Armitage has a Northern accent, for reference. If you're into period dramas (which I don't know if you are, but what the hell), check out North & South from 2004 for some good Northern vs. Southern accents (he just so happens to be the lead in it which is why I mentioned it).

Ahhh that makes sense, then! Glad you're getting around to it :)

Date: 2012-12-04 02:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Oh dear, that is some hilariously cryptic slang. The North is indeed Mordor. :P Thank you for the link!

I don't know who Richard Armitage is, but thank you for that link also!

Date: 2012-12-04 02:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
If you see The Hobbit, you will soon know who Richard Armitage is, as he is playing Thorin Oakenshield.

(At 0:51, he's the one who starts singing. Coincidentally, that's when the shivers start running up my spine.)

Date: 2012-12-04 02:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Oh, new Hobbit trailer! Wait, when did Gandalf/Galadriel become a thing to ship? Why are they touching? I am confused! She is married, isn't she?

Date: 2012-12-04 03:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I have absolutely no idea. But to be fair, I don't really pay any attention to either of them because I'm too busy with the music >_> Priorities, I have them!

Date: 2012-12-04 12:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Ooh, I still miss him, he had much more angst than all the new Doctors, probably the reason I loved him the most, also its wonderful to watch how Rose changed him :)

Date: 2012-12-04 12:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
It is just extremely confusing to me how it is *possible* to have more angst than Ten, for whom people were making jokey "Don't cry, emo Time Lord" image macros by the end. Clearly I missed things in this fandom. :P

I am looking forward to the season arc with Rose, especially the Bad Wolf part. :D

Date: 2012-12-04 06:52 am (UTC)
ext_7442: ([misc] batman)
From: [identity profile]
Batgirl: Year One being out of print is so sad. (As is Nightwing: Year One - I read it, enjoyed it, and promptly despaired of finding it for under $75. Ugh.)

Date: 2012-12-04 05:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
And the first two of Steph's run! So many good comics are out of print now, and they're not even that old. :(

At least there's always Comixology, although it's not the same as having a book.

Date: 2012-12-19 11:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
(Hi, I am lj-surfing and creeping on two-week-old posts apparently... sorry if I'm being a bother!)

Oh, Nine. On the one hand, yes, it is hilarious that anyone can be more fucked-up than Ten, on the other hand... Nine is at least honest about how fucked-up he is, and sometimes I think all of Ten's trouble comes from trying to pretend he's okay (and at least 50% of Eleven's trouble comes from trying to be less of a self-righteous wallowing-in-his-own-martyrdom jerk than Ten). Nine at least knows more-or-less where 'well-adjusted' is, enough for him to wave and flash it a shit-eating grin as it flies past him.

Also ajskdl;jsadf s1. So many underrated creepy episodes (bring tissues and a sofa to hide behind for 'Father's Day'). And s1 is pretty much RTD at his best, except the parts where it is RTD at his worst in terms of cringe-inducing parodies of pop culture, but shhh, we ignore those because Nine and Rose and Time War and Daleks and Bad Wolf and the thirteen-hanky salute that is the finale.

Date: 2012-12-20 01:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
No bother!

Does that mean that instead of actually getting over things, the Doctor just recognizes that his "mourning period" or whatever is *supposed* to be over, tries to fake it, and fails miserably, hence ending up with more angst rather than less?

Ahhh I am very excited to see the finale and such. If I ever actually get there at the speed I watch television....

Date: 2012-12-20 02:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Something like that! Or like... "Rose, Rose look, you made me better, you have healed me of my trauma, look how much better I am, look, I will regenerate into a perky aesthetically pleasing puppy dog so we can have hot makeouts and WHAT AUGH HUMAN EXPECTATIONS OF ROMANCE THIS IS SO AWKWARD WHAT DO I EVEN wait what do you mean Rose is gone forever--WHAT--okay lol never mind, so not over this trauma shit, COMMENCE GALLIFREYAN ANGST SPIRAL IN 5... 4... 3... hey look it's an alien invasion I think I will let loose a season's worth of feelings!denial with some nice tasty genocide!"

Nine is awesome tho. I think he was just so desperate for healing/closure/Not Being The Person He Was In The Time War that it bled into his regeneration and, well, regeneration is always a bit of a dodgy process. ;)

Date: 2012-12-20 04:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Everyone has all these explanations of Ten and Eleven that are based around regeneration and Nine and I am beginning to think I am Missing Things because I watched things in whatever order I liked until S5 started. :P

Date: 2012-12-20 05:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Oh man, RTD likes his season arcs even more than Moffat. He builds his characters (especially the Doctor!) by season, he seeds stuff in the Christmas special and then has it come back to bite the Doctor in the ass in a vicious orgy of poetic justice two season finales later, he takes an offhand line from s1 and reuses it with a HORRIFYING TWIST in s3, and then with an even more horrifying twist in the specials... I like it. A lot. It's the sort of thing where you can totally watch it in whatever order and have fun, but it becomes so much richer when watched chronologically.

(The line to watch out for, btw, is in Dalek: Rose asks "Is that the end of it, then? The Time War?" and Nine responds with a heartbreakingly wry "I'm the only one left. I 'win.' How about that." Both of those are like... the lines that will not die and keep coming back in more and more messed-up ways from various characters.)

Date: 2012-12-20 05:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Oh, see, I never got that, because I could catch the stuff they were teasing for individual season finales even with the out-of-order (like "Vote for Saxon" or whatever), but the rest is too subtle. And also, I never finished.

I think I remember Ten saying, "I win," at some point. Would that have been "Waters of Mars?"

Date: 2012-12-20 07:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yeah, if you watch out of order within a season the storylines are present if kinda jumbled; as soon as you start mixing seasons, though, it loses a lot of its arc-tastic richness.

Ha, yes, Ten is the only one left, but he's not just a survivor, he's the WINNER goddammit, and the laws of time are his and they will obey him, and this is why Nine is actually the closest to well-adjusted of the lot.

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