ladymercury_10: (DoctorCrusherSquee)
[personal profile] ladymercury_10
So I watched "Remembrance of the Daleks," and basically I was, as [ profile] shinyjenni would say, making little fists of glee the whole way through.  Oh my goodness.  I know I say it all the time, but I love this show.  Entertaining background lady scientists!  Bechdel test passing!  The Doctor, for once, managing to be less impractical about money than the companion!  Power-synth music and other 80s tropes for childhood nostalgia and great justice!  Ahem. *straightens sweater, calms down*

But pretty much everything I was told would be there by the people who commented on the last post was there: the Doctor being an adult and not whining, Ace kicking tail, and a very entertaining mixture of well-written serious bits, perhaps accidentally campy bits (was Davros wearing old-school curly telephone wire?), and lots of intentionally playful bits.  (Thanks to everyone who told me I should watch it--you were right!) 

And Ace and Seven are fantastic.  Somebody on Tumblr was saying that Ace is like the Strong Female Character archetype done correctly, i.e., not exaggerated.  Much as I love some of the characters who take flak for supposedly being exaggeratedly strong and/or being one-dimensional, I think this is a pretty good characterization of Ace and her awesomeness.  

Also, I hyena laughed at Ace's Dalek racial purity explanation, reconstructed with help from [ profile] olivia_sutton's quotes page:

Ace: Renegade Daleks are blobs.  
The Doctor: Blobs?
Ace: Imperial Daleks are bionic blobs with bits added.  You can tell the Daleks are into racial purity.  So one lot of Daleks reckon that the other lot of blobs are too different.  Well, they're mutants.  Not pure in their blobbiness.
The Doctor: Result?
Ace: They hate each other's chromosomes.  War to the death.
The Doctor: Well, um, Ace, let’s go and see which blobs are winning, hmm?

ALSO also I am relatively certain Ace was wearing Batman earrings for the duration of the episode.  See here:

ace batman
So, uh, what do I watch next, guys?  I mean, Fenric, but what else?  And does anyone have any Seven-era fanfic recs to share?  (Probably nothing too long--if I'm going to read something above 10k, it's probably going to be one of the bajillion library books I have on my desk already.)

Date: 2012-11-06 09:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I have no idea what you've watched/if your only after seven era but my personal favourite is Robots of Death and Happiness Patrol... they tie for win. I also kinda love any Liz Shaw related ones...

Date: 2012-11-06 09:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
As far as Classic Who, I've seen Ghost Light, City of Death, Pyramids of Mars, and now Remembrance of the Daleks. I am on a Seven-era kick right now, and I still have a lot of RTD Who to catch up on since I was watching those seasons out of order. Thank you for the recs! :)

Date: 2012-11-06 10:04 pm (UTC)
elisi: (Seven is pleased)
From: [personal profile] elisi
So, uh, what do I watch next, guys?
The rest of S25! :)

The Happiness Patrol, The Silver Nemesis and The Greatest Show in the Galaxy.

Btw I'm sure you can see how Seven-like Eleven is. The showdown with The SIlence in Day of the Moon was pure Seven - they thought they'd achieved what they wanted, and he completely turned it on its head and used it against them.

Mmmmm, I have kink THIS wide for manipulative liars.

Date: 2012-11-07 12:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yay, thanks for the suggestions!

Mhm, I went back and read your rot-13 comment, haha, and the bit with the Silence was very like the "you tricked yourself" bit with the Hand of Omega. :P

Date: 2012-11-07 01:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I love that icon! Which ep is it from?

Date: 2012-11-07 01:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
My icon, or [ profile] elisi's? Mine is from one of the Pond Life mini-episodes. [ profile] hauntes made it, if you want to use it. :)

Date: 2012-11-06 10:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Remembrance of the Daleks is awesome. And I agree, Ace is the strong female done right. She's strong, but she's a real person, not a hyped up version. She gets hurt, gets scared, but still does what needs to be done. And kicks ass, but in a way that we could, if we were brave enough.

And, yeah, I love some of the explanations in Classic Who, it's done in simple, fun language, but it conveys serious ideas. Racial purity, chromosomes, advanced tech. And then it has the Doctor rewiring a transmat so a Dalek will blow itself up if it tries to use it, by having one half materialize where the other half was.

And I completely agree about, "Doctor being an adult and not whining." I think that is the one thing from Classic I miss the most, the Doctor could be carefree, but still be an adult, could be deep and serious, but not be moping or whining. I miss an adult Doctor.

There's loads more of Classic to enjoy. Are you just concentrating on the 7th Doctor era or are you open to other suggestions too? If so, I'd suggest "Horror of Fang Rock" with 4 and Leela.

Date: 2012-11-07 12:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yeah, Ace is a good companion because she gets really obviously scared, but at the same time she buckles down and does whatever she has to. "In a way that we could, if we were brave enough," is a good way to put it, and I think that's at the heart of what makes a lot of the best companion moments--ordinary people choosing to be brave enough.

The Doctor being more grown-up and less self-pitying is something [ profile] elisi told me to watch for. And I do love Eleven and Ten and how goofy and petulant they are, but it is quite nice for a change to have a Doctor you don't feel someone needs to babysit. :P

I think I'll probably stick to Seven for now--I still have a bunch of RTD Who to catch up on as well, as I never quite finished all of it. I have seen a little bit of Four, though--before Seven, my only Classic Who experience had been "Pyramids of Mars" and "City of Death."

Date: 2012-11-06 10:42 pm (UTC)
ext_23287: (time lord)
From: [identity profile]
Battlefield! It's by the same writer as Remembrance of the Daleks, and it's also awesome.

LADY SCIENTISTS. :D And Ace beating up a Dalek with a baseball bat. I would love Remembrance for those things alone, the fact that the rest of it is so good too is an added bonus. Ace is wonderful; she feels so real (despite the bizarre slang she sometimes gets lumbered with).

Date: 2012-11-07 01:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Ooh! That sounds exciting!

Ahaha, I also liked the lady scientist beating up the half-blown up Dalek with the baseball bat. "Allison. Allison! Thank you Allison, it's dead now."

And Ace does feel very real--she is very brave, but she is also quite obviously scared a lot of the time. And she whines a bit, which teenagers often do, but not so much that it gets annoying. And, and and!

Date: 2012-11-06 11:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
basically I was, as shinyjenni would say, making little fists of glee the whole way through.

Oh, yay! Gosh, it's always such a wonderful feeling when somebody first encounters something you love and loves it as much as you do. Yay, "Remembrance!" Yay, Ace! Yay, Who!:)

As for what you should watch next... Well, yes, definitely "Fenric." And I think I have to chime in with those who are suggesting "The Happiness Patrol," which is the good kind of crack.[ETA: Oh, yes, and "Battlefield." I love "Battlefield!"]
Edited Date: 2012-11-06 11:18 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-07 01:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
It was indeed quite splendid. Thank you for helping me overcome my television inertia and actually watch it, haha! :D

Thank you for the suggestions! Also your icon is super adorable, where did you find it?

Date: 2012-11-07 01:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
You are so very welcome!

And isn't that an awesome (and appropriate!) icon? It's by [ profile] icons_of_isis. I think I found it on a comm somewhere, but I'm afraid I can't remember where.

Date: 2012-11-07 01:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Oh, cool! I will go look at their icon posts then. :)

Date: 2012-11-06 11:34 pm (UTC)
such_heights: amy and rory looking at a pile of post (Default)
From: [personal profile] such_heights
AAAAAACE! She's so wonderful. I do also love Battlefield, though I have to admit that for me Happiness Patrol was the bad kind of crack and I couldn't get past the first episode. But maybe there are wonders later on!

Date: 2012-11-07 01:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
She is a lovely companion. She reminds me a bit of Amy, but kind of the kinder, gentler version of Amy? Which is hilarious to say of someone who carries explosives in her backpack, but what I mean is that Amy is louder and brassier and less likely to show you that she's scared, I think. (Which I say in the fondest way possible, of course. :P )
Edited Date: 2012-11-07 01:14 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-07 09:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
She reminds me a bit of Amy, but kind of the kinder, gentler version of Amy? Which is hilarious to say of someone who carries explosives in her backpack, but what I mean is that Amy is louder and brassier and less likely to show you that she's scared, I think.

Yeah, I can see it. Amy goes to a lot of trouble to pretend that she's emotionally invulnerable. Ace isn't quite so . . . armored, I guess.

Date: 2012-11-07 10:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
That confused me a little bit at first, because I had read a fair bit of Seven-era fanfiction, and so I was expecting Ace to...put on more of a front, I guess? I think maybe what happened is that a lot of the time when she sasses people, she does it sort of quietly and not in a particularly aggressive way--which is harder to convey in writing, and which I wouldn't have just known since I hadn't seen her serials before I read the fanfic.

Date: 2012-11-07 11:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Well, there's also the influence of the New Adventures books, which I don't tend to credit since they tend to harden Ace up too much. Luckily, I'm free to ignore them, since they occupy the quasi-canonical gray space occupied by most other non-television spin-offs.

Date: 2012-11-08 01:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Ah, that would also help to explain it. Or most of the Ace fanfic I read had Hex in it, too, which I guess would be from the audios, so I don't know if that makes a difference?

Date: 2012-11-08 01:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Very possibly. I haven't actually listened to any of the seventh Doctor audios, but I know that Hex is an audio character. (About the audio adventures, I can say that "The Chimes of Midnight," with the eighth Doctor, is really excellent.)

Date: 2012-11-07 02:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yay, the Remembrance of the Daleks is awesomesauce! I'm glad you liked it.

Definitely watch the Curse of Fenric right away. It is Seven at his manipulative best, and one of my favorite classic Who stories. I also second the rec for Battlefield, which is fun.

I haven't read much specifically Seven-era fic, but I do have some multi-Doctor fic recs:

-The Polar Bears' Golf Club by Doyle. Hilarious fic wherein Ace and Rose must work to rescue Seven, Ten, and Mickey from cryostasis imprisonment by disguising themselves as boys. There's witty banter, derring-do, and explosions. 4543 words.

-Double Crossing by JessaLRynn. Seven and Ace meet Ten and Rose at a Star Trek convention. Hijinks ensue. Almost 44,000 words, so you might want to save this for when you've got some free time.

Meanwhile, I saw on your last post that you hadn't seen S1. You really must fix the tragic lack of Nine in your life.

Date: 2012-11-07 03:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yay, thank you for all of the recs, both of serials and fic! Ace and Rose hanging out sounds like lots of fun. :D

And I know, right? I had been saving it to watch in order, and I just haven't gotten around to it. I am thinking I'll try to start on that soon--the DW off-season is the perfect time for it. :)

Date: 2012-11-24 08:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Ahh, I just read The Polar Bears' Golf Club, and you were right, it was great! :D

Date: 2012-11-11 06:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Those are definitely batman earings. :glee:

I love Ace.

Date: 2012-11-11 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Ace would like Batman, wouldn't she? I wonder if she thinks of herself as the Doctor's Robin. :P

Seventh Doctor

Date: 2012-11-28 10:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Just by way of introduction -- I've seen *all* of Classic Who (except the missing/lost episodes) and new Who, and I saw Sylvester McCoy when his stories first ran in the US. Davison, McCoy and Tennant are my favorite Doctors in chronological order. I'm also a massive Ace fan. She rocks -- and for precisely the reasons you point out.
I'd suggest watching the 7 and Ace episodes in order because there is actually an arc going on there (tho' much more subtle than any arc in New Who). I know this is going to sound weird -- but try to get the extended edition of "Silver Nemesis" if you can. Unfortunately, the DVD of "Silver Nemesis" is the edited version (now it IS how it originally aired -- but what happened was they filmed a 4-parter, then the BBC decided it should really be three parts and they hacked it to pieces, losing one of my favorite Ace & the Doctor scenes in the process). But if you can't find it, at least go for them in order.

Re: Seventh Doctor

Date: 2012-11-28 10:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Thank you for the tips! Ah, yeah, it looks like the DVD Netflix has for "Silver Nemesis" is 74 minutes, which suggests it's the 3-part version. I haven't really been watching in order--I did "Ghost Light" first, then "Remembrance of the Daleks," then most recently "Battlefield," but I did figure I should at least save "The Curse of Fenric" until I'd seen enough of Ace to appreciate it more fully, instead of watching it first, say.

Date: 2012-12-02 06:26 pm (UTC)
clocketpatch: A small, innocent-looking red alarm clock, stuck forever at 10 to 7. (7 Ace up my sleeve)
From: [personal profile] clocketpatch
It's just such an awesome fest isn't it? Did you catch the little Dalek girl with the balloon random singing the same song as the balloon girl in The Family of Blood? I still don't get whether that was an intentional cross-reference or not but I love it. And I love that Ace picks up Susan's textbook in the science lab. Heh.

As for good fic refs...

Nemo the Everbeing: has some of the best Seven fic ever written.

and jjpor's Protect and Survive: may well be THE best Seven fic ever written (in my opinion anyway.)

And *insert self-indulgent self-promotion here* I've written a longish Seven fic myself, but since the plot hinges heavily on stuff that happens in Survival and the Big Finish Adventures it might not be exactly what you're looking for lol

Date: 2012-12-02 06:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
It is indeed an awesome-fest. :) I didn't catch that with the little Dalek girl, but it's been a while since I saw "Human Nature/The Family of Blood." And that's cool about Susan's textbook--I didn't notice that, either, because I haven't seen any First Doctor episodes.

Yay, thank you for the fic recs! And it is perfectly ok to self-rec. :D I have heard one Big Finish story with Hex ("Night Thoughts") and have vague knowledge of some of the other ones' plots, but I am not sure if that is enough or not?

Date: 2012-12-02 08:05 pm (UTC)
clocketpatch: A small, innocent-looking red alarm clock, stuck forever at 10 to 7. (7 Ace up my sleeve)
From: [personal profile] clocketpatch
I think you just need to know that he exists and have a general idea of what happened to his mother. You definitely need to have seen Survival though.

Date: 2012-12-02 08:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Those are things I know. :) I have not seen "Survival," though. I don't have time for a really long fic right now, anyway, as I'm coming up on finals, but I will keep it in mind, as I imagine it is excellent. :)

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